Logic and Conventionalism

Logic and Conventionalism 19/01/10

Is a conventionalist justification of logic coherent? What implications does this have on the TAG/presuppositionalism?


Authored by: Mitchell LeBlanc.


In this post I will be utilizing quotations from Richard Creath’s excellent article: “Carnap’s Conventionalism” Synthese 93 (1-2). The quotations will outline precisely what the conventionalist justification of logic is, and hopefully dispel some misunderstandings. I had initially posted these set of comments on a post at Choosing Hats but some emails, comments on my article regarding the TAG (those from ‘Joshua’) and other conversations with presuppositionalists have prompted me to present these explanations in a post of their own. The commenter, Joshua, has failed to engage with the bulk of my criticism against TAG stating in a Facebook comment:

“Like I said before, you are arguing against a straw man. The explanation you offered in your paper fails to account for the preconditions of intelligibility. You are simply making an attempt at showing how an atheistic/evolutionary world view accounts for the preconditions of intelligibility, but the fact that these preconditions exist demands that the Christian world view be true. ” (spelling corrections mine)

What I have tried to explain is that Joshua should simply take my arguments and run them as an internal critique in his own worldview, a sort of internal reductio. The soundness of my article, if truly sound, will not be limited to one worldview. That is to say, if my argument truly does establish its conclusion it will do so if parsed through his own worldview and if that conclusion is such that it shows that his worldview cannot account for logic, then all the worse for his worldview! He may not simply beg the question in favor of his position after seeing the outcome of my criticisms. To this suggestion he has responded:

The conclusion of your argument is based on your ignorance of the very foundation for the Christian world view. There were certain aspects of the Christian world view that you simply ignored, and the ones that you documented were misrepresented. Now, if its that important to you, I will go ahead and sift through your article one paragraph at a time and comment on the ones that are faulty.

This is a pretty heavy charge, but I look forward to his analysis. I do recommend, of course, that it take into account the following material.

With that said, in an effort to quell any further attempts at avoiding the ‘meat’ of my paper due to an “inability to account for the laws of logic,” I will present the conventionalist justification of logic. In my discussions with presuppositionalists they have seemed to largely misunderstand the system and in turn create strawmen of their own to argue against. We must be cognizant now that the TAG as I’ve outlined in the previously linked paper or the statement that only the Christian worldview can account for the laws of logic requires that no other justification be possibly true. If the presentation of conventionalism is coherent it saddens me to say that one will not even need to read my paper to show that TAG (and presuppositionalism) fails. Further, there are those who would assert that presuppositionalism is the true apologetic system in that it is the one that Christianity explicitly endorses. There are also those who say that presuppositionalism/TAG cannot possibly be false because of the guarantee given by scripture. For these people, there is much more at stake than merely the coherence of the TAG, they also risk the truthhood of Christianity.

If the TAG, and further, presuppositionalism, are the true exemplifications of Christianity it follows that their defeat is symbiotically a defeat of Christianity. We can demonstrate this with a simple modus tollens:

(1) If Christianity is true, then the TAG succeeds

(2) The TAG does not succeed

(3) Therefore, Christianity is not true

What of course needs to be shown is (2), and while I feel that I’ve shown it sufficiently in the aforementioned paper, as I’ve said there are those who wish to address my supposed “inabilities.” Let us analyze if the claim that conventionalism cannot possibly account for the laws of logic is true.

What is Conventionalism?

What follows will be a series of excerpts I’ve chosen from Creath’s article that I feel outline the conventionalist justification of logic quite well.

Carnap made a refreshing and welcome suggestion: the axioms can be construed as definitions (implicit definitions) and their assertion as commitment to a language containing the terms so defined. The axioms or postulates need no further epistemic justification because a language is neither true nor false, and one is free to choose a language in any convenient way. If someone else should choose other apparently conflicting postulates, there is in fact no disagreement because each postulate set is constitutive of the concepts it employs, and hence the one body of postulates is not denying what the other is asserting. In this manner the postulates are not even intended to reflect an antecedently and independently existing reality, but rather literally to create the claims they express.

It may be that some postulate sets are better than others. But the ‘betterness’ in question concerns their practical usefulness: some are more powerful or easier to use than others. In terms of epistemic justification or cognitive warrant they are all on a par. Indeed, they are the ‘meter sticks’ for the justification of anything else. Epistemically the choice among them is conventional, though the constraints imposed by pragmatic utility can be significant. For example, an inconsistent postulate set is not very useful. For most logicians of the period, including Carnap, every sentence as well as its negation would trivially follow from a contradiction. An inconsistent postulate set would therefore fail to draw any cognitively interesting distinctions among sentences or beliefs. Though the preference for consistent systems is treated as a pragmatic one, the pragmatic considerations are powerful indeed.

In this first excerpt we see some constant presuppositionalist claims addressed. If logic is conventional, can’t people just choose different conventions? If some people choose different conventions than others, they will be contradicting each other, so how do we know which one is true? The answers to these questions are laid quite simply in the excerpt. Each language or system of logic will have a set of definitions that require no further epistemic justification. Think about the English language, there are definitions of words but to ask why a certain word is defined as such rather than some other definition is a question that simply makes no sense for languages which are neither true nor false, they simply are. Further, if someone chooses some language different than ours (say, French), there is no contradiction because the French language cannot disagree with the English language because they are creating their claims independently of one another.

Pragmatism comes into play when want to decide which system to use. Now, keep in mind that Carnap is not proposing that people somehow “choose” their basic brain languages (the language upon which they would choose all other languages). This is as silly as suggesting that one should be able to choose their genetic makeup as to yield a certain eye-color. Our fundamental operating language, our basic logical brain language (logical because there is no such thing as non-logical languages) is not chosen by us, but rather is the precondition for all other choosing. For the systems we can choose, be it in mathematics or computer science, we use the ones that allow us to perform certain tasks. We would not choose a trivial system because anything follows from trivial systems, the answer to every proposition is “Yes,” clearly this is useless.

“This discussion of pragmatic usefulness and explication must not obscure, however, the epistemic core of Carnap’s doctrine. The choice among alternative postulate sets is epistemically arbitrary; the choice is a matter of convention. Moreover, the postulates themselves are the fundamental epistemic doctrine.”

Again, where choice is possible amongst systems the choice is arbitrary. Creath continues:

At this point it would be well to say a bit more about convention, for it is not always clear what is at stake in saying that something is a matter of convention (Quine, 1936). Plainly, when Carnap speaks of the semantic and epistemic features of our language as conventional, he does not mean to suggest that they are the products of some actual legislative assembly convened in antiquity. But shorn of such unhelpful metaphor, what does conventionality come to? The answer, in essence, is that to lay down a linguistic convention is to adopt a certain scheme of justification. This scheme involves two specific features: first, there are alternatives to certain aspects of the justificatory system; and, second, the choice among these alternatives is arbitrary in the sense that no justification is required for the choice. In particular, to say that postulates are laid down by convention commits one to the idea that there are alternative postulates that could have been chosen, but were not. It commits one likewise to the idea that no further epistemic justification for the choice of postulates is required. Conventions are not designed to reflect antecedent and independent facts; if they were thus designed one would have to show that they had done so. Rather, the postulates (together with the other conventions) create the truths that they, -the postulates, express.

So put, conventionalism is the adoption of a system of justification. Other systems could have been chosen, but weren’t and no justification is required for the choice. Further, conventionalist systems are not reflecting some external reality, they really are creating their truths. We will see a further explanation of this below.

Creath continues:

That the conventions constituting the system of justification are at bottom arbitrary poses no threat whatever to the objectivity of the postulates and their consequences. This was of particular concern to Carnap because he thought that all of logic and mathematics, insofar as the claims thereof can be assessed at all, is to be justified as are postulates and their consequences. Once a system of justification is chosen, i.e., once the various terms of the language are given a definite sense, it is a completely objective matter whether B is a consequence of A. It in no way depends on what any person may happen to imagine, think, believe, or know about these sentences. It is likewise a completely objective matter whether or not a given claim needs further justification. These things are no more subjective than the truth value of the claim “All swans are white”, given of course that the meanings of the terms are fixed. If the word ‘white’ has a sense different than it in fact does, then the truth value of the claim might be different, but this in no way impugns the objectivity of “All swans are white”.

Here we have an answer to the common presuppositionalist assertion that “if logical principles are conventional, they are not necessary.” As the quotation says, once we adopt a system of justification whether or not X is true, or Y is true is a completely objective matter. To quote myself in a previous discussion with presuppositionalist Chris Bolt:

There is a distinction between “object-level” and “meta-level”. Consider a meta-ethical circumstance, where an evolutionary account of morality may be charged with becoming eliminitivist. “if I do some good deed X just because I am programmed to, then X is not really good to do, it’s just part of my programming” But these statements are operating on different levels. Both the following propositions would be true: “X really is good to do” and “X really is just a part of my biological programing, and that’s the only reason I think X is good to do” A contradiction only occurs when both statements are taken to be expressing a proposition of the same level.

Applied to logic, “X is really necessarily true, everywhere, regardless of what anyone thinks, and regardless of anyone’s conventions. And X really is just part of a system of conventions I have adopted as part of my programming.”

Thus we can see that the common charges against conventionalism by the presuppositionalists are simply misunderstandings. Conventionalism does not entail that some logical systems will contradict others, nor does it entail that everything becomes subjective and that logical principles are no longer necessary. Now, so long as conventionalism is a possible justification of the laws of logic, the TAG (and for some people, Christianity) is simply defeated:

(1) If Christianity is true, the TAG succeeds

(2) If some system other than Christian Theism can possibly account for the laws of logic then that TAG does not succeed

(3) Conventionalism possibly accounts for the laws of logic

(4) The TAG does not succeed

(5) Therefore, Christianity is not true

Conclusion

In dispelling the myths surrounding conventionalism put forth by presuppositionalists it should be clear and evident that conventionalism is coherent. Further, given its coherence it is a possible justification of the laws of logic, showing that the TAG fails. Coupled with the criticisms in my aforementioned paper we are left with the possibility of a conventionalist justification and the impossibility of Christian Theistic justification. For certain Christians, these conclusions are nothing less than devastating. If their position is the one I’ve outlined in the syllogisms, not only can Christian Theism not account for the laws of logic, it is false altogether.


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  • I don't know, what are you doing? lol
  • If it is true that you can be smiling and yet not happy then the first premise of your argument, "(1) IF I am smiling THEN I am happy" is false. This is why your conclusion does not follow. It is not because the argument form is invalid, but because your first premise is false. Hope this helps.
  • noen
    Turn it around -- If I am happy then I am smiling. I am not smiling. One cannot conclude then that I am not happy. A Modus Tollens is not necessarily true, as the major premise says nothing about falsehood. If, however, P and Q are bivalent (both can be either true or false) and P can only be true if Q is true, then the Modus Tollens stands.

    Is it the case that "I am happy" can only be true if "I am smiling"? No.
  • Okay, let's turn it around.

    1. If I am happy then I am smiling.
    2. I am not smiling.
    3. Therefore, I am not happy.

    The argument is Valid. Premise 1, Premise 2, or both Premises may be False even though the argument is Valid. If either Premise 1 or Premise 2 is False then the argument is not Sound and the conclusion does not necessarily follow. However, the argument is still Valid. Arguments can be Valid without also being Sound.

    "A Modus Tollens is not necessarily true,"

    Modus Tollens is considered Valid. Its Premises may still be either True or False.

    "Is it the case that 'I am happy' can only be true if 'I am smiling'? No."

    This would be a False Premise then, not a proof that an argument form is Invalid.
  • noen
    People tend to assume if the form is true the argument must be also. Which of course it need not be. It would be false to argue that "I am happy" is true if and only if "I am smiling" is true. Is it in fact the case that if "Christianity is true" then "the TAG succeeds"? I don't recall seeing any proof that this must be the case.
  • "The first premise is...'If Christianity is true, TAG succeeds' which assumes that in some sense the TAG is a Christian tenet."

    You originally wrote:

    "Faulty syllogism

    (1) If P then Q

    (2) ~Q

    It does not therefore follow that:

    (3) Therefore, ~P"

    Yes, it does follow, because what you wrote it is a valid argument.
  • noen
    Yes, it was my mistake. It still leaves open the question of is the argument true? Does the truth of Christianity depend on the TAG being true? If the TAG is false does that disprove all notions of "god"?

    Religious faith does not revolve around proofs for or against anything. People do not derive their faith from propositional equations. Belief is not about the abstract assertion that certain metaphysical objects exist. The purpose and function of religion is not to see who can get other people to believe in this or that set of "facts" about the world. It doesn't work that way and to argue about these things seems to me to be the very definition of pointless.

    Really... what is the point? What is the goal? Do you really believe you'll convert anyone?

    What are you doing?
  • Nocterro
    For some theists at least, their belief in God IS based on argument. Also, we debate in order to arrive at a greater understanding of the truth.
  • Nocterro
    Correct. However, in your first post on this article you did indeed state that the form is invalid. That is what we have been commenting on.
  • noen
    Faulty syllogism

    (1) If P then Q

    (2) ~Q

    It does not therefore follow that:

    (3) Therefore, ~P
  • noen
    Example:
    (1) IF I am smiling THEN I am happy
    (2) I am not happy
    It does not follow however that:
    (3) I am not smiling.

    People can lie.
  • If the premises of your example are true then the conclusion "I am not smiling" does indeed follow. Validity and soundness are two different things. You are attempting to object to the validity of a syllogism by offering an example of an argument that is valid yet not sound. The syllogism you present is a valid syllogism, hence if the premises of the syllogism are true then the conclusion follows.
  • Nocterro
    That's not faulty. As Mitch wrote, it's a syllogism in the form of "modus tollens". This is a valid form.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens
  • VazScep
    Great article, Mitch. I'm glad to finally see a defence of conventionalism brought into the discussion.
  • Collin H
    (1) If Christianity is true, the TAG succeeds

    (2) If some system other than Christian Theism can possibly account for the laws of logic then that TAG does not succeed

    (3) Conventionalism possibly accounts for the laws of logic <-- but does it account for the laws of logic?

    (4) The TAG does not succeed

    (5) Therefore, Christianity is not true

    P1 is faulty to begin with, Christianity isn't dependent upon TAG succeeding, its dependent upon the veracity of the Bible. P2 is just wacky, just because another thing can account for the laws of logic, that doesn't mean that it DOES account for the laws of logic.
  • The first premise is not "Christianity is dependent upon TAG succeeding", it is "If Christianity is true, TAG succeeds" which assumes that in some sense the TAG is a Christian tenet. The second premise assumes that TAG utilizes the "impossibility of the contrary", which is not the same thing as the "non-actuality of the contrary". Not many presuppositionalists would doubt these assumptions.
  • Collin H
    Look at where he goes with this, TAG does not succeed, therefore Christianity isn't true. I see no reason why TAG failing would entail Christianity being false.
  • I see where he goes with it. Again, the reason why TAG failing would entail that Christianity is false is because of the assumption that in some sense TAG is a Christian tenet.

    Also, merely asserting that conventionalism does not actually account for logic without an argument to this end will not further the presuppositionalist program.
  • Collin H
    "I see where he goes with it. Again, the reason why TAG failing would entail that Christianity is false is because of the assumption that in some sense TAG is a Christian tenet."

    Even through conventionalism God can indirectly be responsible for logic, the sovereignty of God would not be compromised, if God created the universe then it would be impossible for logic to be there to begin with, which would mean that total depravity wouldn't be compromised either..
  • Collin H
    "I see where he goes with it. Again, the reason why TAG failing would entail that Christianity is false is because of the assumption that in some sense TAG is a Christian tenet."

    Even through conventionalism God can indirectly be responsible for logic, the sovereignty of God would not be compromised, if God created the universe then it would be impossible for logic to be there to begin with, which would mean that total depravity wouldn't be compromised either..
  • Yes but the premise is that if conventionalism can possibly account for the laws of logic then TAG does not succeed. You have to show that conventionalism as Mitch presents it cannot possibly account for the laws of logic. To say that conventionalism as Mitch presents it is consistent with Christianity not only strikes me as being false, but is also a concession regarding TAG at this point.
  • I'm saying that there are those who think that if Christianity is true, then the TAG must be true. For these people if the TAG is false, then Christianity is false. So if you're one of the ones who holds this position and my arguments succeed they don't just defeat the TAG, they defeat Christianity.

    Not all people think this, in fact, I'd imagine the majority of Christians do not think that if Christianity is true the TAG must be true. Chris has the right idea, it's an argument aimed toward most presuppositionalists not most Christians.
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