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	<title>Comments on: The Ultimate Truth-Seeker Challenge</title>
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	<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/</link>
	<description>Your Thoughts, Everyone&#039;s Wisdom</description>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1087</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1087</guid>
		<description>The very fact that you start off with &quot;I believe....&quot; places you in the minority of today&#039;s &quot;New Atheists&quot;. They would never make that mistake because it indicates you have a positive belief system that you justify with reasons (good or bad). The kind of atheists I&#039;m talking about take a negative position of &quot;I have have no beliefs&quot; from which they then take pot shots at honest debate. 
 
In my opinion if one removes oneself from the filed of rational discourse by declaring oneself to be outside of all categories, as if it were possible to exist in this world without a world view, then one does not deserve to be treated as a serious participant in the intellectual marketplace. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The very fact that you start off with &quot;I believe&#8230;.&quot; places you in the minority of today&#039;s &quot;New Atheists&quot;. They would never make that mistake because it indicates you have a positive belief system that you justify with reasons (good or bad). The kind of atheists I&#039;m talking about take a negative position of &quot;I have have no beliefs&quot; from which they then take pot shots at honest debate. </p>
<p>In my opinion if one removes oneself from the filed of rational discourse by declaring oneself to be outside of all categories, as if it were possible to exist in this world without a world view, then one does not deserve to be treated as a serious participant in the intellectual marketplace.</p>
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		<title>By: Nocterro</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1085</link>
		<dc:creator>Nocterro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1085</guid>
		<description>&quot;Since atheism doesn&#039;t propose anything and is defined as a lack then whenever an atheist does say something about God, he isn&#039;t speaking as an atheist. Atheism is an empty construct so when an atheist does make a positive claim he is no longer speaking as an atheist because atheism has nothing to say about anything at all.&quot; 
 
I believe there is probably no God.  
 
What do you call me? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Since atheism doesn&#039;t propose anything and is defined as a lack then whenever an atheist does say something about God, he isn&#039;t speaking as an atheist. Atheism is an empty construct so when an atheist does make a positive claim he is no longer speaking as an atheist because atheism has nothing to say about anything at all.&quot; </p>
<p>I believe there is probably no God.  </p>
<p>What do you call me?</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1082</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1082</guid>
		<description>I messed up the example the first time. A Modus Tollens is not necessarily true, as the major premise (If P is true then Q is true) says nothing about falsehood. If, however, P and Q are bivalent (both can be either true or false) and P can only be true if Q is true, then the Modus Tollens stands.  
 
While it is true that the philosophy of religion is not apologetics what does one say of those atheists who spend all their time doing &quot;philosophy of religion&quot; or &quot;apologetics for atheists&quot;? Most of the atheists I&#039;ve seen on the intertubes know next to nothing about real philosophy or even about science. But they know the Bible better than a street corner evangelist and have their own well developed set of canned arguments against their rival clergy. 
 
The problem arises however when one tries to discover what atheism is as opposed to what it is not. When atheism is defined as a mere lack of belief then atheism as such ceases to exist. It is no long a &quot;thing&quot; but rather an absence. It is not a presence but a ghostly non-presence instead. This allows the atheist to then be free of any consistency or logical coherence. All the atheist need do is to treat moral categories as absolutes when talking about the problem of evil and then treat them as constructs when challenged to provide a ground for morality without god. Or the atheist will take logic as descriptive of only the physical universe when confronted with transcendental arguments and then turn around and take them as absolute when you apply laws of logic to god. 
 
Thus we can see that the only purpose anti-theistic arguments are put to is to counter theistic explanations. It&#039;s nothing more than rhetoric in service of an internecine conflict. The goal is to win, not to discover. That is a fundamentally unintellectual stance. It is neither scholarship nor philosophical debate. It&#039;s priestly bickering. A modern version of arguing over the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. 
 
Since atheism doesn&#039;t propose anything and is defined as a lack then whenever an atheist does say something about God, he isn&#039;t speaking as an atheist. Atheism is an empty construct so when an atheist does make a positive claim he is no longer speaking as an atheist because atheism has nothing to say about anything at all. 
 
If you wish to be in this world then let your yea be yea and your nay, nay. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I messed up the example the first time. A Modus Tollens is not necessarily true, as the major premise (If P is true then Q is true) says nothing about falsehood. If, however, P and Q are bivalent (both can be either true or false) and P can only be true if Q is true, then the Modus Tollens stands.  </p>
<p>While it is true that the philosophy of religion is not apologetics what does one say of those atheists who spend all their time doing &quot;philosophy of religion&quot; or &quot;apologetics for atheists&quot;? Most of the atheists I&#039;ve seen on the intertubes know next to nothing about real philosophy or even about science. But they know the Bible better than a street corner evangelist and have their own well developed set of canned arguments against their rival clergy. </p>
<p>The problem arises however when one tries to discover what atheism is as opposed to what it is not. When atheism is defined as a mere lack of belief then atheism as such ceases to exist. It is no long a &quot;thing&quot; but rather an absence. It is not a presence but a ghostly non-presence instead. This allows the atheist to then be free of any consistency or logical coherence. All the atheist need do is to treat moral categories as absolutes when talking about the problem of evil and then treat them as constructs when challenged to provide a ground for morality without god. Or the atheist will take logic as descriptive of only the physical universe when confronted with transcendental arguments and then turn around and take them as absolute when you apply laws of logic to god. </p>
<p>Thus we can see that the only purpose anti-theistic arguments are put to is to counter theistic explanations. It&#039;s nothing more than rhetoric in service of an internecine conflict. The goal is to win, not to discover. That is a fundamentally unintellectual stance. It is neither scholarship nor philosophical debate. It&#039;s priestly bickering. A modern version of arguing over the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. </p>
<p>Since atheism doesn&#039;t propose anything and is defined as a lack then whenever an atheist does say something about God, he isn&#039;t speaking as an atheist. Atheism is an empty construct so when an atheist does make a positive claim he is no longer speaking as an atheist because atheism has nothing to say about anything at all. </p>
<p>If you wish to be in this world then let your yea be yea and your nay, nay.</p>
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		<title>By: C.L. Bolt</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1074</link>
		<dc:creator>C.L. Bolt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1074</guid>
		<description>Additionally, Modus Tollens is Valid.  
 
Just thought I would throw that out there. It sort of took me by surprise too. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Additionally, Modus Tollens is Valid.  </p>
<p>Just thought I would throw that out there. It sort of took me by surprise too.</p>
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		<title>By: MitchLeBlanc</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1073</link>
		<dc:creator>MitchLeBlanc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1073</guid>
		<description>The philosophy of religion is NOT apologetics. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The philosophy of religion is NOT apologetics.</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1072</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ahh, ok sorry. Yeah, I know it&#039;s not being constructive. You can submit your own articles? Hmmmmm... I&#039;ll consider that. Also, Prosblogion is exactly what I am NOT looking for though it still amazes me that again you equate apologetics with philosophy. Really? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, ok sorry. Yeah, I know it&#039;s not being constructive. You can submit your own articles? Hmmmmm&#8230; I&#039;ll consider that. Also, Prosblogion is exactly what I am NOT looking for though it still amazes me that again you equate apologetics with philosophy. Really?</p>
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		<title>By: MitchLeBlanc</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1071</link>
		<dc:creator>MitchLeBlanc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1071</guid>
		<description>I think you might find the &#039;type&#039; of philosophy for which you&#039;re looking somewhere on websites such as the Prosblogion, etc. There is a very specific purpose to the &#039;urban&#039; in &#039;UrbanPhilosophy&#039; of which you seem to be largely unaware (you need just to read the &quot;About&quot; page). 
 
Of course, given the nature of the website in which you are more than welcome to contribute (and encouraged to do so) continually posting negative comments while contributing nothing just seems rather non-constructive. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you might find the &#039;type&#039; of philosophy for which you&#039;re looking somewhere on websites such as the Prosblogion, etc. There is a very specific purpose to the &#039;urban&#039; in &#039;UrbanPhilosophy&#039; of which you seem to be largely unaware (you need just to read the &quot;About&quot; page). </p>
<p>Of course, given the nature of the website in which you are more than welcome to contribute (and encouraged to do so) continually posting negative comments while contributing nothing just seems rather non-constructive.</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1070</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1070</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s interesting that a website that is supposedly about urban philosophy does little philosophy and no &quot;urban&quot; centered discussion at all. This list of recommended books is typical.  
 
You don&#039;t do philosophy, you do apologetics. 
 
You are not philosophers, you are priests. Schismatic priests, but priests none-the-less. 
 
My prediction then, is that say... two hundred years from now all the churches will be filled with atheist priests still discussing among themselves all these &quot;very deep issues&quot; and recapitulating all the old hoary arguments. They&#039;ll even perform the old rites out of respect for long vanished opponents and their sermons, although openly atheistic, will still touch on the same concerns of mankind&#039;s relationship with the world. 
 
If you never actually leave the inner sanctum how can you call yourself a non-believer? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#039;s interesting that a website that is supposedly about urban philosophy does little philosophy and no &quot;urban&quot; centered discussion at all. This list of recommended books is typical.  </p>
<p>You don&#039;t do philosophy, you do apologetics. </p>
<p>You are not philosophers, you are priests. Schismatic priests, but priests none-the-less. </p>
<p>My prediction then, is that say&#8230; two hundred years from now all the churches will be filled with atheist priests still discussing among themselves all these &quot;very deep issues&quot; and recapitulating all the old hoary arguments. They&#039;ll even perform the old rites out of respect for long vanished opponents and their sermons, although openly atheistic, will still touch on the same concerns of mankind&#039;s relationship with the world. </p>
<p>If you never actually leave the inner sanctum how can you call yourself a non-believer?</p>
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		<title>By: Common Sense Atheism &#187; People Taking the Debunking Christianity / Ultimate Truth-Seeker Challenge</title>
		<link>http://urbanphilosophy.net/uncategorized/the-ultimate-truth-seeker-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-1065</link>
		<dc:creator>Common Sense Atheism &#187; People Taking the Debunking Christianity / Ultimate Truth-Seeker Challenge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://urbanphilosophy.net/?p=1079#comment-1065</guid>
		<description>[...] Mitchell LeBlanc, student, agnostic atheist. Beginning in 2010. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mitchell LeBlanc, student, agnostic atheist. Beginning in 2010. [...]</p>
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